As Bad has stated, him and I are having a bit of a debate about wether or not the answer of God explains anything. It started on “Response to ‘The Atheist Is A Thief’” and continued on his blog. It has taken me several days to respond to him because, frankly, I didn’t want to debate his entire readership (which jumped on me when I posted on his blog) and just wanted to debate with him. So here is my post regarding his response on his blog (scroll down a bit and you’ll see his response in full).
Bad
“You repeat “strawman” a lot, but there’s more to fallacies than merely alleging them left and right.”
Actually, I only accused you of a strawman fallacy twice and it fit both times. You did not repeat your strawman here so I am not repeating it again.
“First of all, I never said anything about you using cosmological arguments. My point is simply that you offerred God as explaining something that the lack of God, supposedly, cannot.”
You stated that I was using God as an explanation for the beginning of the universe, I was doing no such thing. I was stating that an all-powerful, all-knowing Creator God accounts for the uniformity of nature while the lack of that God cannot. There is a subtle difference there, but it’s an important one.
“But as I have argued, your “explanation” isn’t: it doesn’t actually explain anything. When I say that you can offer it, I am noting that it is not contradicted by anything (indeed, you could claim that God does everything all the time: how can this be contradicted?). But it also does not accomplish anything.”
So which is it? Is it that a God explanation is not an explanation or is it that the God explanation can’t be contradicted? You can’t have it both ways. Is it that a God explanation isn’t an explanation or that it’s not a USEFUL explanation? You made both statements here. I just want to clarify what it is that we’re actually discussing.
[In response to Bad’s assertion that “God” doesn’t enhance knowledge, I had previously stated that “God accounts for the uniformity of nature” DOES explain certain things to us. Such as that the universe: had a Cause, took knowledge and therefore sentience to form, was a God choice and therefore has a purpose, if the Universe has a purpose then so do we]
“How do you know that causing a universe requires knowledge? Have you created one recently? Are you going to let us all in on the process, and the specific steps, including how and when forethought is necessary to do it? What are the constraints one faces when creating a universe? What are the ranges of possibility? Can things simply exist uncaused, or not?”
Those are not the questions I am asking. You may ask them, and that’s fine, but we’re discussing wether or not a God answer explains anything, not “everything”. You could ask endless question that I wouldn’t have the answers to and then you could say, “See! God isn’t an answer!” but that wouldn’t really be honest of you. If I remember correctly, you are the only one saying that “we can’t really know anything about the beginning”. Asking question after unanswerable question just to prove your “we can’t know anything” statement might make you feel better about your position, but it doesn’t refute that a God answer DOES tell us something! That the universe has a cause and purpose for example.
“Again, asserting God allows you to simply bypass every single substantive question about how the universe came to be the way it is (nor does it answer the question of whether it even came to be in the first place).”
But I thought you stated that we CANNOT know anything substantative about the beginning of the universe, period. So which is it, can we know something substantative and the God answer is hindering us? Or is it that we can’t know anything about the beginning but God is an explanation? How does the God answer NOT tell us that the universe exists?
Also, you are assuming that there CAN BE a naturalistic answer for the beginning of the universe, something you cannot know.
“It’s as if you were given a multiple choice question, and you claimed that you’d gotten it right because you’d chosen EVERY option, and thus, chosen the right answer in the process. That still doesn’t tell us anything about which answer was, in fact, the right one.”
That is NOT what we’re doing at all. Not even close. By saying that every answer in a multiple choice question is the right answer is to violate the Law of Non-Contradiction. To say that the only way to explain the uniformity of nature is through God who created nature uniform, and sustains it uniform, does NOT violate the Law of Non-Contradiction.
“The difference between you and I is simple: you are jumping to a very particular and extremely extravagant philosophical assumption on how and if the universe came to be, while I am remaining honest in admitting that we don’t know.”
We are comparing worldviews here, that’s all we are doing. I have a simple premise; Science requires that nature is uniform. I have a simple question; Which worldview is able to explain this uniformity? A naturalistic atheistic worldview definetly cannot explain it, only have faith that it is so while the Christian worldview is able to explain why we expect and believe nature to be uniform.
“But talking about anyone “trusting” that nature is uniform is to completely misunderstand things. We don’t trust this at all: I don’t at least. It’s an axiom: an assumption we inevitably make because without some basic assumptions we cannot even acknowledge the existence of our common reality, much less learn anything about it.”
An assumption is something you believe to be true without evidence. To say that “we assume it but we don’t trust it’s true” is to redefine the word “assumption”. But I agree with you, without the assumption that nature is uniform we wouldn’t be able to function. Christianity can explain that assumption while atheism cannot. In fact, it’s no longer assumption for Christians, it’s something we expect based on the nature of God and His revelation to us.
But you’re situation is worse than that. If you followed our your “we can’t know anything for sure about the laws of nature” position to it’s logical conclusion, you’d actually have to expect that nature would NOT be uniform.
Let me ask you a question: Why were the early scientific fathers able to assume that nature was uniform without anyone having assumed it before them and without any testing done to suggest it might be? Also, did their old-world, dogmatic, YEC belief in God hinder them from doing great science?
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